www.loopzorbital.com

Taken from this website:

Phil Hartnoll interview: Life After Orbital

Guido Farnell Date Added: 18.11.2005
ACCLAIMED PRODUCER PHIL HARTNOLL IS BEST KNOWN FOR HIS WORK AS PART OF ORBITAL, BUT HE’S MOVING ON – AS A BREAKBEAT DJ, IT SEEMS.

It was billed as the end of an era when Orbital called it a day last year, their parting shot 'The Blue Album' was certainly one of the best in the pioneering duo’s long and illustrious career. Back in the day, alongside the likes of Future Sound Of London, Aphex Twin and Moby, Orbital pioneered a techno sound that simultaneously remained true to the aesthetic of the electronic underground whilst finding success on the charts. It is hard to believe that brothers Phil and Paul Hartnoll released Chime back in ‘89 before it went on to become a top 20 hit in the UK on FFRR in 1990.

“We just wanted to put a stop to Orbital before it went completely stale.” explained Phil Hartnoll who is touring Australia for Earthcore this month. “The time was ripe for it. I think we had been working together for such a long time that we were getting caught up or set in our ways. We were definitely running the risk of sounding uninspired and perhaps becoming boring to our listeners. It was kind of compounded by the fact that we were brothers and after all these years it started to feel as though I had not even left home. Also, Paul has just had twins and he wants to work from home while concentrating on his family. Paul doesn’t really want to tour any more and that clearly puts a lot of restrictions on everything.”

I wondered how Hartnoll viewed the electronic music scene he helped pioneer back in the early ‘90s. “I compare it to a tree – a tree of electronic music. In a way it is like a family tree. It has its roots down in the ‘70s with early disco records and that comes up into the ‘80s with Kraftwerk and the American hip hoppers getting hold of that vibe and mixing up electro and hip hop. It has all been facilitated by advances in technology and making it all much more accessible to people. I love the idea of people being able to express themselves, through any means really."

"These days you have really powerful programs like Reason sitting on just anyone’s laptop. That’s a great development as so many more people can now experiment with electronic music than were able to back in the ‘70s. It opens up so much more possibilities. Don’t get me wrong, I still love my hardware – nothing beats a real 303, 808, my old Arp and of course all those other old synths. I have three boys, the eldest is 17 and is into drum‘n’bass, the next is 15 and loves ‘80s music. If ever they were to start making music they would bring such different influences to the table than I did with Orbital.”

“I think I have I have lost my train of thought, where was I? But you have that tree now with lots of branches coming off it representing your drum‘n’bass, electro, techno, ambient music and all sorts of weird and wonderful sub-genres of things. It is fascinating from my point of view even though I have been around for so long. It was early electro music that inspired me to go out and buy a drum machine. Years ago the warehouse parties were all hip hop and suddenly that changed into acid house parties. It is interesting that when younger people come up with new music you can hear a bit of this and a bit of that in what they are doing. It is usually all so bastardised or transmutated into something else. It is all wonderful. I still love listening to music and hearing how things evolve."

"These days we have this ‘dance music is dead’ message coming through but that tends to be only certain quarters of the media that has adopted this attitude. Invariably they are the ones looking for the 'next big thing' without enjoying what they already have. Dance styles tend to arrive on a crest of popularity and when people move on the genre will find its proper plateau."

"Orbital were old hat after we had a hit and that was back in the early ‘90s. They give it to you from both ends as well, in the sense that once you have had a hit you can’t possibly be underground or considered cool anymore. You have to take all that with a pinch of salt.”

All good things never last, yet disbanding Orbital does not imply retirement as both brothers are now working on separate projects. “Paul has been working at home on a project with some top secret vocalist, and even I am not allowed to know her identity. All I know is that he’s working with a female vocalist. I don’t see that much of Paul these days."

"On the other hand, I have been in the studio for about a year now, essentially since Orbital came to an end. I have hooked up with a couple of friends, namely Ben Burns and Nick Smith and we have been working on another project called Long Range. We have definitely got six tracks finished and mixed down. Everything we have been working on should be sorted for release sometime next year.”

“I have not conscientiously tried to do something that sounds really different to Orbital. The Long Range project is just an extension of what I have always done. I have just carried on doing what I have always done as a part of Orbital. The difference being that I am no longer working with my brother but a couple of mates and this has really mixed up the flavour of my music. When I play it to people they say they can hear elements of what I would usually produce."

"All the six tracks are very different to each other and they are an interpretation of different forms or styles. Orbital used to do this without getting into thinking that we had to produce a specific type of track. We never wanted to be pressured into producing just one particular dance style. I would find that too restrictive. The six tracks that we have laid down so far shift from quiet chillout to something that is more uptempo and verges on being described as rock. And then there is a bit of everything in between.”

“I have been doing a bit of DJing since last August, which is great fun. Actually, it’s probably closer to two years now. Sometimes time has no meaning, really.” laughs Hartnoll. “I get quite inspired by other people’s music and DJing helps to keep my head into what’s happening. I really enjoy it. It keeps me on my toes, you know, focused and locked into what’s happening on the music scene. I find myself constantly searching for records and listening to loads of new music. At the moment I just do a couple of gigs a month to try and get out there.”

I wondered what currently on high rotation on Hartnoll’s turntables. “Oooh! I just so happen to have my record box with me – I thought it would come in quite handy but I have to tell you I hate these ‘what’s your favourite records?’ questions. First up there’s DJ Philly’s Darth Vader – fun acid breaks. What You Wanna by Laliger on Lock 49. Mr. Ratty, Rat Décor. These are all kind of very white label-y type records. Hidden Forces, Pain Of the World. Blim, Sound In My Head; that’s another good one. I have done a couple of dancehall collaborations. You might be interested in this one called Dr Hoover, which is pretty funny. It is a collaboration I did with a DJ/producer called Ed209. Aquasky are currently doing an album that will feature lots of collaborations with lots of people that they know who are into breaks. I have done one track with them and that should be coming out next year.”

“My idea of a good DJ set is just playing good fun uptempo party sort of music. At the moment breakbeat is the one dance style I love the most. I find a lot of Orbital fans show up to my gigs, so there is always a little pressure to play some Orbital tracks. So invariably I find myself mixing up breakbeat tunes with the odd Orbital track."

"As I said before, the emphasis when I DJ is on having fun. You know how things can get a bit serious on the dancefloor sometimes and I am certainly not very serious at all. To be perfectly honest my mixing is technically not that fantastic. I am more interested in the vibe, the atmosphere that the music creates and the communication between the DJ and the audience.”

PHILL HARTNOLL PLAYS EARTHCORE GLOBAL CARNIVAL AT THE GOULBURN RIVER ON 25TH-27TH NOVEMBER AND ROOM 680 ON SATURDAY 3RD DECEMBER.

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And also from this website:

PHIL HARTNOLL - The Wheels Keeps Turning

Though touted as one of the world's best live acts, Orbital have never played a Perth show and - having declared the group's official end 18 months ago - it looks like they never will. But with Phil Hartnoll's DJing career taking off, at least we'll get to see him as he plays Subculture Festival this Saturday, November 26, at Belmont Racecourse. EDDIE DRURY finds out how Hartnoll has been filling his days since leaving the group.


"I've been working on a new project called Long Range with a old friend of mine, Nick Smith, who comes from the world of sound design and things like that," Hartnoll explains his latest passion. "He's done a lot of sound design for films and things like that and I've always been quite interested in that area but never explored it, so I thought it would make a good combination. So we've mixed about eight tracks now, and we're just working out the logistics of it now."

The logistics he speaks of involved setting up his own label and distribution company. Though he explains they'll both be 'paper' companies, it still seems like he's going about it the hard way. After all, as one half of Orbital he was the head of one of dance music's all-time most influential groups and that's made his name a bankable investment any label would be happy to sign. But Hartnoll has been around this block before and is not going to make the same mistakes twice. This time he is very keen to retain all the rights for his music; something he doesn't have for nearly the entire Orbital back-catalogue.

"It's all out of my hands," he explains, "We haven't got anything and none of it's coming back to me. The last LP me and my brother we did the same thing there, we released that ourselves with a distribution deal basically. So the Blue Album is mine and my brother's definitely, but all the other stuff is still owned by... I think it's Warner's now... Which is probably now AOL or McDonalds or something. Who knows."

Orbital originally signed to UK label London records in its hey-day under Pete Tong. It was a label that suited Orbital well, but after the decade of media monopolisation that was the '90s they changed hands several times. And so now the brothers are in the ludicrous position of not even knowing who it is that owns the rights to the majority of their life's work.

"I was under the impression that they keep the rights for 15 years and because our first album was out in 1990 I was thinking 'ohh great, maybe I'll get the rights back'. But I think contractually it counts from the last stuff we did with them, which was 2003, so I've probably got to wait another 15 years now before I can start doing anything with it. It's a shame really because I could do lots with it and it's just sitting there."

When discussing music and record labels it's easy to forget, but at the end of the day it is just business, and the number one rule of business is if you can get away with it, go for it. And so the label milks whatever they can out of the Orbital brand, grinding their name into dirt in the process.

"They released a really ridiculous thing recently - it was quite embarrassing really, we didn't know anything about it - they just took it upon themselves to release some obscure little tracks we had done ages ago. Somebody somewhere thought was a really great idea and botched up a cover for it and then flogged it for €3.99 in the bargain basement bin and I only found out about it from our website and hearing people talking about it. There's just no relationship there, which is a real shame. That's what always pisses me off really, you get things released under your name without even being spoken to. It's rude apart from anything else, 'cause it's all very important to us, the look and everything, and we've paid so much care and attention to it over the years. And to have something go 'bosh, there you go,' - and it's a hideous cover - it's like 'ohh, thanks for that.'"

But, devastating as it would be to not even have control over the music you wrote, they're not dwelling on it. Hartnoll is far more interested in what he's doing now. After 15 years working together, the reason the brothers parted ways was to reignite their creative fires, and that's exactly what they've done. Since then Paul has been working on film scores and Phil has been working on Long Range and, most recently, his DJing career.

"It's good to get going with new projects, it's like starting fresh again, it keeps you fired up... DJing is mostly a new thing really, we used to do it every now and then as a laugh with my brother. Obviously when we played live it was a gig and we completely played whatever set we were doing at the time. But the DJing is a completely different thing really, obviously because if I go out DJing I'm riding off the back of Orbital in that sense, so people are turning up to hear a few Orbital tunes. The same as if I saw Darren Emerson, you'd be disappointed if he didn't play a few Underworld tunes... But I'm also really into breakbeats and a bit of house and so when I go out DJing it's normally a mixture of some house, some breaks and some Orbital tunes too. All mixed in for people's pleasure."

Back when Orbital first came out in the early '90s, dance music was almost exclusively found at raves and parties. Orbital were among the first musicians to take dance floor music into the home, and so it's ironic that now he's trying to take Orbital music back to the dance floor.

"I do the most bizarre gigs sometimes, I played in Istanbul recently and I had about five really obsessive Orbital fans up front, but for the rest of them it was just a normal club night. So that's a challenge, because I'm not really used to do that DJing environment and it makes you think sideways. You've got to keep the party going and also you've got to keep these fans happy. As Orbital we never really pandered to the club, obviously we were always very influenced by dance music and electronic music over the years, but it's never been dancefloor. So when you've got a mixed audience like that it is quite a challenge. But that's what I enjoy about it really, I like being forced to think sideways rather than just sitting comfortably."


Posted on November 23, 2005 05:55 PM

nice interview i never knew he had kids that age
or that paul had kids..

“Paul has been working at home on a project with some top secret vocalist"

let the guessing begin

Timbob wrote:nice interview i never knew he had kids that age
or that paul had kids..

“Paul has been working at home on a project with some top secret vocalist"

let the guessing begin

And a film score called "The Duel"...

nice interviews:) thanx nick.

Here's a Paul Hartnoll one (just to keep a balanced view!) from this website:

When two world entwine

Clive Collier talks to composer Paul Hartnoll who, despite his background in experimental electronic dance music, would love to score a period drama.

publication: http://www.showreel.org

Article first published: Spring 2005

Paul Hartnoll, with brother Phil, formed the industrial dance band Orbital, which recently split after 15 years together. On the face of it, this might not be the most obvious credentials for someone who wants to score a period costume drama.

“This was during the mid-80s, when Cabaret Voltaire and Kraftwerk were the influential bands, along with the odd sampling experimentalists such as Severed Heads from Australia,” says Paul. “We saw an OU programme on experimental sound showing you how to dismantle an old-fashioned phone, connect a guitar cable to it, smack it with a metal rod to get weird and interesting sounds from an amp. So I bought cheap synths and drum machines. Learning music went by the wayside, but what I did do was understand more complex music through jamming improvisation. I love emotions conveyed through instrumental music. My father liked popular scores so I was always able to play toy soldiers to war movie themes.”

There’s been a movement over the past few years towards film soundtracks being pieced together using dance and rock tracks, so might it have been easier to break into films through your Orbital work?

“I hate that!” he says. “One is licensing and the other is composing to picture. Orbital has done its fair share of that, but what I want to do is colour the film with my music rather than provide music for gratuitous moments when characters turn to camera holding a Nokia phone. There are a few people who have been good at compilation soundtracks, such as Kubrick and Tarantino. Trainspotting, on the other hand, had some good moments, but generally it was irritating because I didn’t know whether I was supposed to be listening to the music or Ewan Macgregor.”

Orbital’s music was first used on Paul Anderton’s Shopping. “That was the first time we scored to picture. He also took a track of ours called Halcion, which has a cinematic intro that has been used in many films. He used it as Jude Law’s sad theme, which worked really well. When he did Event Horizon, he was worried about using someone (Michael Kamen) so classically orientated on his flashy sci-fi film, so he got us involved to try and influence Michael in a more electronic way. We got on really well with Michael. It was amazing to watch someone jamming with a 30-piece orchestra and then give us an ADAT tape and tell us to go and sample or do something with it.

“If I’ve got a film in front of me, I use a one-hand-on-the-keyboard approach. I’m looking for a silver thread that works for a minute and a half and, once I have that, I embellish it. I can sit there for hours trying to think up a theme, but I find my themes come better if I’m watching the image, trying to find the simplest statement to match it. If I do something for a film and it’s rejected, I may use it as the basis for one of my own personal compositions.”

Do you need to watch the rough cut or finished film a few times to think ideas through – or do you instinctively start composing straight away?

“I find it instinctive and I then go back to the drawing board if it doesn’t work. I need to know the plot and read the script so I have my own internal image of what the characters look like and what is going on so I can start thinking of sounds. I like to make my mind up first and work from there.”


“I think it’s essential. I like to grill them. ‘So why do you want that? What do you want it to say? He’s scared and she’s angry so which emotion do you want?’ Some directors are brilliant communicators. Rob Cohen on xXx is the best director I’ve spoken to. Jim Wheadon (The Duel) was good to work with, as it was the least mucking around – I got it almost straight away and the rest was a case of stripping away.” Will a director say to you how they want the score to sound – as in orchestral or electronic?

“I think that’s often how directors talk because they’re not musical most of the time, so they talk in terms of instruments rather than tunes. For instance ‘I imagine a big orchestral sound’ or ‘I imagine lots of drums’. When I did Octane, the director asked me what I envisaged for the film and at that time I said it would be a totally electronic score, moody with lots of soft tones with experimental drums. He said he was thinking along the lines of soft dark tones, which matched what I was saying, so I knew we could work with that. Then I went on set in Luxembourg and realized it would be more highly polished, so I came back thinking smooth, glassy digital synths, which changed the original idea. I’m always keen to go on set because it gives you an insight into the vibe and how the director works. You also get ideas from the art director, for instance.”

Do you feel that you have started to develop a style to scoring along the lines of how John Williams is theme driven or Graham Revell is mood orientated?

“I don’t know yet. I can hear something developing, but I don’t know whether that’s because of the sort of scores I’ve been doing. I’d like it think it would be theme based, but more John Barry than John Williams. I’d like to bring strong themes back into the cinema, like Danny Elfman has. But at the same time I love scores such as Solaris or Traffic (Cliff Martinez), which are almost ambient Brian Eno with hardly a tune.”

What tools do you use to score?

“Dual 2Ghz Apple G5, which tends to act as the central mixer. Low budget work tends to be finished in the Mac, whereas for larger projects, I will go to a studio. I’ve got a Yamaha O2R, but I use that as an input device. I’m using an awful lot of soft synths not available in other forms, such as Absynth, Reactor, and I love the soft samplers such as Kontakt. I mix everything through Genelec monitors because of their depth of sound, which is much better than the usual Yamaha NS10s.

“I like the idea of exploring new boundaries. We don’t know where it’s all going or what you can do. I’m into granular sampling at the moment, where you can disassociate time and pitch, which is my favourite. It’s incredible at creating new sounds.

“I have no outboard (FX) gear as I tend to stick to plugins. Lots of people think that’s a bad thing, but I don’t get it. I’ve been doing music for 20-odd years and I think they sound wonderful. But what I do keep outboard is my collection of favourite analogue synths. I’ve got an Alesis Andromeda – a wonderful modern analogue synth, which I couldn’t live without now. I’ve also got an Oberheim Expander, which is one of my all time favourite synths and an Arc 2600, which is my inspiration machine for when I don’t know what to do. I just set the hard drive to record and start pressing buttons. When we did Octane, we used the Expander pretty much throughout. We did a TV series called Keen Eddy, where the synth on that was all the Alesis Andromeda.”

Which software do you use now?

“I’m on Logic 6 and I can’t wait to get on Logic 7, but I want to make sure my plugins are ready. I love the Oscar plugin because in early to mid Orbital, we had the real synth, which broke down and couldn’t be fixed. When I use the plugin I can’t believe how accurate it is.”

And you’re using the EastWest orchestral library at the moment?

“Yes, I like the fact that it has a leaning towards Hollywood. It’s got the capacity to be very John Williams if you want it to be, even though that’s not my side of Hollywood. It has the right kind of richness and instruments for when I want to try something out. If you get a tune on the synth and wonder what it would sound like as an orchestra, it will sound like a Hollywood score with the EastWest. The depth of sound and reverb with three layers of mic recording is shockingly good. It’s so simple yet such an innovation.”

Do you have a game plan or strategy as to how to get your name known and be involved in larger projects?

“I’m not going to move to LA to schmooz because, even though I’d love to, I’ve got three children and live in Brighton and it’s not going to happen. From what I hear, you don’t get into Hollywood unless you go there. But there are exceptions to every rule: David Arnold works a lot in London.

“I have an agent in LA who says that unless you’re in LA it’s going to be difficult, and as a result we pitch but never really get anywhere. I’m going to get a UK-based agent to aim more at Europe. If the highlight of my career was scoring something like Three Colours that would be fantastic. I don’t have a need to go to Hollywood because I don’t think they’re necessarily making the best films. I’m still feeling my way through, which is why its important to find an agent who you can run and gel with. They know where you’re at so they know how to pitch you.”

Do you find when you watch films that you analyse the score more than perhaps you did before?

“Sometimes, but in general I’m very much your average Joe Public filmgoer. I have noticed a few good scores lately such as The Mothman Prophecies and One Hour Photo. Both very modern.”

Are you worried that you will be asked for Orbital-esque scores?

“Not really, because I don’t think the Orbital style could sustain a soundtrack. Elements of Orbital would be fine, but then again they are my natural elements anyway. Orbital was 15 years of my life and there may always be an element of that in my work, and besides if someone specifically wants that style, why not? My fear is that they say ‘He only does dance music, doesn’t he?’ That’s why I’d love to do a period drama.”

• Paul replaces classical training with invention, arrogance with enthusiasm, and yet carries a torch for a flavour of film scoring which wouldn’t be right to categorize alongside the likes of John Barry or Danny Elfman. He is forging his own experimental way in accepting all forms of music and potential sounds and layers, which makes total sense in scoring.

Hearing his score for The Duel, I could hear subtle shadows of his Orbital days, but more refreshingly a minimalist naivety which, although successful in Paul’s work, poses an uncomfortable question. If orchestral is the convention, then how successful can purely electronic or hybrid soundtracks be in controlling audiences who are used to John Williams and Hans Zimmer?

The answer is subjective, but listening to The Duel did make me feel that the potential for predominantly electronic scores to throw audiences wide of the director’s intention is greater. The sheer scope of sounds, samples and noises creates a canvass, which, if properly used, can be hugely effective, but runs a greater risk of alienating the lay audience if it’s too weird and whacky. Of course, there’s plenty of orchestral rubbish echoing around your multiplex on a regular basis, but somehow because orchestral sounds are more familiar, it blends into the depths of the sound mix a lot easier.

Clive Collier

Clive Collier is MD of post facility Storm Creation based in Brighton and technical editor of Showreel. Between working on documentaries, TV ads, 3D animation and online projects, Clive completes tests on systems pertinent to the industry today. Previously, Clive worked in production for many years and as a software trainer with clients such as Fox Kids and Pearson TV, after making the move from professional audio engineering.

Phil Hartnoll wrote: I do the most bizarre gigs sometimes, I played in Istanbul recently and I had about five really obsessive Orbital fans up front, but for the rest of them it was just a normal club night.

Is Fabric in Istanbul, then?!

The Blue Album is mine and my brother's definitely, but all the other stuff is still owned by... I think it's Warner's now... Which is probably now AOL or McDonalds or something. Who knows."

AOL or McDonalds or something! Good call!

anyway, nice hearing from them both... Anybody hear this Duel soundtrack yet?

i belive its actually called 'the deal'and its a short indi film , havent seen it though