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Stick to the subject matter Kansler We are talking about smoking being banned in public places. Talk about tangents!

I'm sure your farting percentages are a joke especially as I haven’t been asked by anyone doing a survey. Side note. I DO fart more than smoke

I can’t see how banning smoking in public places will increase death. Maybe explain that but stick to smoking and public places unless the theory is that everyone who cant get a smoke will start killing people

I don’t want smoking to be illegal but i agree on this laws to protect those who don’t want or don’t have a choice to breath in smoke. I'm also not here to protect all people from dying as a lot of people deserve what they get for abusing the way they do. I will look out for the ones who I can, especially the ones around me and those who are just learning about the world (i.e.: children). I am suposed to be a responsible human being. maybe its human nature - who knows.

I need to drum in to you that I wouldn’t take children to a place where there are strippers - that’s just a dumb thing to imply. Its also not just about pubs Kansler, you can go to a football match and the whole foyer can be smoked out. Also the NIA had a disney on ice show and although they banned smoking in the actual arena from day one, people can still smoke in the area around the arena. It was like a smog area and that was a family show (no strippers at disney on ice!).

People who smoke around you are affecting other people. Adults can walk away and know the crack so to speak. Children don’t, especially toddlers etc. Also Beer drinking, cocaine snorting, pricking ya arm with whatever is not going to directly affect someone standing in the same room as them. It’s not like the child will unknowingly be drinking the booze, snorting coke or absorbing any drugs in that respect. Smoking, smoking, smoking...that’s what it’s about.

It’s the same with hamburgers as well (why are you talking about hamburgers!). They have to be actively eaten by someone who knows what they are eating or in a child’s case, the parent or guardian has given them the food. This is a totally different argument from the smoking debate.

mmm as far as individual rights vs public health goes, i think they've made the right choice, but for me personally i'm very happy about it. i'll enjoy the lack of smoke in pubs/clubs, and i also hope that some of my friends who want to quit smoking will find it a lot easier to do so.

This is officially my last post in this thread...

These "tangents" you mention are not so: If you allow for random regulation, even if they do something that pleases you today, who knows what sort of crap they'll come up with tomorrow. They might point the gun at you tomorrow.

I'm glad we agree, loopz, on the main issue. The main issue being 1) the right of adults to do to themselves what they want and 2) the right of children and bystanders to NOT be affected. I'm also glad you're not against people harming themselves, because some people are do-gooders who want to protect people from themselves, because they "know better."

I just think you're mistaken if you think that this act aims at protecting children. It aims at treating adults as children.

I agree that the government has the right to ban smoking in public spaces, like parks, streets, government officies and so on. I wish the ban would do this!

Under the proposed definition of a "public" space, restaurants don't have the right to "go smokey," because people "have the right" to a smoke-free environment, even if they choose to enter a private club that says "WARNING! LOTS OF SMOKE AND ALCOHOL INSIDE!". Not so. Not anymore than they have a right to hear Christian Rock at every music concert. This is ridiculous. If you don't like trance, don't go to an Oakenfold gig. Some people enjoy smokey places. These places are for them. In fact, music concerts and clubs should be banned much more readily than smoking in pubs, since music can be heard in the neighbourhood at night, whereas smoke fumes remain confined to the pub! Not only do the parents have the RIGHT to take kids to smoke-free places, they have the RESPONSIBILITY to do so, under the duress of law. This is already clear, no further legislation needed. Also the venue owners have the RESPONSIBILITY to be clear about their smoking policy: If they have second-hand smoke, it's obviously not suitable for kids, and they shouldn't advertise it as such - or face prosecution.

I think there should be a choice for consumers between "Fast Food With Fumes" (obviously not for kids - or sane people!) and "Fast Food Without Fumes." Many places, like McDonalds, many pizza joints and ethnic restaurants don't allow smoking inside. Nobody forced them, thank goodness, to make it so. Actually, I wouldn't take my kids to McDonalds for other reasons - I think what they serve (and HOW they do it) is evil.

If at a Disney Ice Show people are smoking, even though they're not supposed to, then call the guards and have them thrown out. If, on the other hand, the place allows for smoking at certain places too close to the arena - well, complain about it, sign a petition, protest and shout. Boycott is also powerful. I think that you'd get smoke-free ice shows in about 30 minutes, if people only voiced their opinion. Of course, if the venue is owned by the government, full-on ban is advisable and possible.

But if you know there will be second-hand smoke in a place advertised for kids, that's a clear felony - an attempted poisoning - and should be prosecuted. In fact, kids being around parents' tobacco smoke is a case of parental neglect, too, and thus subject to litigation. Any case of second-hand smoke at a public space (TRULY public, not a tittie bar or a pub) is subject to restrictions, litigations and/or total bans. In fact, people should demand this. At home, only child protection warrants litigation. At private venues, only if they lie about being smoke-free and/or for kids, should they be prosecuted.

There are many aspects of modern society that are troublesome. For example, traffic fumes (talk about smog!). EVERYBODY is affected by industrial fumes. Everybody's sucking in second-hand carcinogens. Now here's a REAL venue for regulation: Ban cars from public streets in downtown. This is allowed, since the roads are paid for by taxation! In fact, I support this.

Or if you want your tax money to be spent on things like government-owned smoke-free parks, pubs, soccer fields or even Mexican restaurants (!), then go ahead and propose that. That would be legit, at least.

But if three blokes in Brighton want to set up a private adults-only club called "Fish'n'Smokes", where sea food is served as the main food, and Cuban cigars as a kind of soothing aperitif, I wouldn't want to deny them the pleasure. Who would?

Actually, I kinda agree with some of the points that Kansler has made in his latest post, as (being a smoker), I would love to be able to go to a pub that allows smoking...

...However, if you do have exemptions for pubs/clubs/etc, then you run the risk of smoke-free pubs/clubs losing out to smoke-allowed pubs/clubs as smokers will frequent the smoke-allowed pubs/clubs.

So, what's the problem with that, you ask? Well, out of a group of friends (some of whom smoke), they will choose the smoke-allowed pubs/clubs in favour of the smoke-free pubs (as the smokers, naturally, will choose the smoke-allowed pubs/clubs, and their non-smoking friends will follow them there, being friends!). This is what the Government and the Breweries wanted to avoid, and thus, this week's vote.

Of course (being a smoker), I would have loved the choice, but with the arguments above, I can see why a total ban was chosen in the end...

Kansler wrote:This is officially my last post in this thread...

These "tangents" you mention are not so: If you allow for random regulation, even if they do something that pleases you today, who knows what sort of crap they'll come up with tomorrow. They might point the gun at you tomorrow.

lol. Let’s deal with tomorrow’s allegations IF and when they actually do happen.

Kansler wrote:I just think you're mistaken if you think that this act aims at protecting children. It aims at treating adults as children.

I never said this act has been brought in just to protect children but to me its one of the big pros. I think you are mistaken if you think they have done this to treat adults like children

Kansler wrote:If you don't like trance, don't go to an Oakenfold gig.

To my knowledge listening to trance hasn’t killed anyone as yet. Although it may piss some people off

Kansler wrote:Some people enjoy smokey places. These places are for them.

ahem...*cough* dry ice machines *cough*

Kansler wrote: In fact, music concerts and clubs should be banned much more readily than smoking in pubs, since music can be heard in the neighbourhood at night, whereas smoke fumes remain confined to the pub!

Rubbish. Do you REALLY think that smoke stays confined in a pub?
Music isn’t killing people or causing deadly disease.

Kansler wrote:Not only do the parents have the RIGHT to take kids to smoke-free places, they have the RESPONSIBILITY to do so, under the duress of law. This is already clear, no further legislation needed. Also the venue owners have the RESPONSIBILITY to be clear about their smoking policy: If they have second-hand smoke, it's obviously not suitable for kids, and they shouldn't advertise it as such - or face prosecution.

The problem with this is not every parent or guardian is responsible. So what do we do there, just point fingers and say it’s the parents fault? The real victim is the child and all because people don’t want to be told what to do.

Kansler wrote:I think there should be a choice for consumers between "Fast Food With Fumes" (obviously not for kids - or sane people!) and "Fast Food Without Fumes."

what a f*cked up country we would live in.

Kansler wrote:If at a Disney Ice Show people are smoking, even though they're not supposed to, then call the guards and have them thrown out. If, on the other hand, the place allows for smoking at certain places too close to the arena - well, complain about it, sign a petition, protest and shout. Boycott is also powerful. I think that you'd get smoke-free ice shows in about 30 minutes, if people only voiced their opinion. Of course, if the venue is owned by the government, full-on ban is advisable and possible.

You are looking at the result of many people shouting, protesting and many petitions. This hasn’t been forced because a bunch of MPs want it done. This has come from the voice of the public.

Kansler wrote:kids being around parents' tobacco smoke is a case of parental neglect, too, and thus subject to litigation.

I’ve already commented on this. Some parents are terrible when its comes to responsibility

Kansler wrote:There are many aspects of modern society that are troublesome. For example, traffic fumes (talk about smog!). EVERYBODY is affected by industrial fumes. Everybody's sucking in second-hand carcinogens. Now here's a REAL venue for regulation: Ban cars from public streets in downtown. This is allowed, since the roads are paid for by taxation! In fact, I support this.

All these have been tackled and something HAS been actioned to reduce this. I'm sure it’s only a matter of time that they will re-address the pollution side of things. Smoking has never been addressed and it’s about time.

Kansler wrote:But if three blokes in Brighton want to set up a private adults-only club called "Fish'n'Smokes", where sea food is served as the main food, and Cuban cigars as a kind of soothing aperitif, I wouldn't want to deny them the pleasure. Who would?

usernick wrote:Actually, I kinda agree with some of the points that Kansler has made in his latest post, as (being a smoker), I would love to be able to go to a pub that allows smoking...

well you know what i am in the smoking, non-smoking side of things. I can go outside if i want to smoke

Loopz wrote:

usernick wrote:Actually, I kinda agree with some of the points that Kansler has made in his latest post, as (being a smoker), I would love to be able to go to a pub that allows smoking...

well you know what i am in the smoking, non-smoking side of things. I can go outside if i want to smoke

True, and in Ireland, some of the pubs actually have disused double-decker buses parked outside where smokers can go and sit in to have a pint and a fag (when the weather's crap)!

Of course, it's not without it's reasons that the Government has actually chosen summer of next year to implement the ban (so we don't see a dramatic fall in the decrease of people going to pubs - i.e. smokers can sit outside in beer gardens)!!

yeah thats what we all thought (people at work). TBH i do kinda of feel sorry for you Nick cus i actually thought u had 5 fingers on one of your hands when we was in glastonbury

I wasn't kidding when I said I wouldn't reply no more, but this is just too juicy to pass without comment:

Loopz said:

I am in the smoking, non-smoking side of things. I can go outside if i want to smoke.

This is great! So actually on PUBLIC property smoking should be allowed, but on PRIVATE property it should be banned? Talk about freedom is slavery and double think!

OK, if somebody wants to continue discussion, PM me (not "prime minister" me, but you know... although that would be interesting).

You cant stop people from smoking outside as the law states you CANT smoke in ENCLOSED public places. try again

Loopz wrote:yeah thats what we all thought (people at work). TBH i do kinda of feel sorry for you Nick cus i actually thought u had 5 fingers on one of your hands when we was in glastonbury

*cough* *giggle* *splutter*

I'll survive (unless the smoking kills me first)!

oh that sucks!! We had something similar in planet hot few years ago then places like the bars, pubs and clubs had bad business as a result and that didnt do the economy any good so .. everyone forgot about it and now everybody's still fagging ...

All they do now is raise the price of ciggies every 6 mths...

omg.. does farting cause cancer?? then im def gonna be dead soon

lol


and that comment bout nick having 5 fingers cracked me up [/quote]

well i think people shouldnt be able to damage others health just because they have a dirty habbit, i say STUMP OUT OR GET OUT!!!!