For those who have good eyesight and like a challenge

Acid Gaz · Post by **Acid Gaz** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:57 am

OK, Villa played a cup tie on Wednesday 21 Feb 1894, which is consistent with the date being FEBRUARY 17th 1894.

Could this be the real date (i.e., is it an abbreviation - Fbry 17th??)?

Post by **Loopz** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:33 am

Acid Gaz wrote:OK, Villa played a cup tie on Wednesday 21 Feb 1894, which is consistent with the date being FEBRUARY 17th 1894.

Could this be the real date (i.e., is it an abbreviation - Fbry 17th??)?

I shall now call you Detective Acid Gaz!

It would make sense as they replayed Sunderland that day having knocked out the cup holders Wolves in the previous round. I've read the Evening Mail from the first 3 months of 1894 and there was a lot of hype around the cup that year. I think most people thought the Villa would win it. There was also an article in the paper stating that the Villa officials had gone too far by asking the players not to smoke or drink and at one point they had to lie down for 1 hour before kick off! lol. Again that would tie in with the comments about keeping "fresh" etc.

They did play the Birmingham cup and the Mayors cup in those days which was for teams around the Birmingham area. I will know more once i've completed scaning the 1894 archives which will take me a month or so.

Dolly - yes it is that man.

Acid Gaz · Post by **Acid Gaz** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:38 am

Loopz wrote: I shall now call you Detective Acid Gaz!

I'd rather you changed my 'rank' to something different from 'Saint' - doesn't sit well with us Pompey boys...

Kagey · Post by **Kagey** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:00 pm

heres my mum's take on the first letter

you did not come across last night and muti( ny? ) waited for you
well you better now go ----- as usual or mrs johnstone and he
will take you up and introduce you to him.
I think he can find you a job at 30 /-(shillings) a week
Get out your averages --- ----- particulars and see him at once
You are playing at Penny (Perry) Barn Saturday
kick offs at 2.15

tcb2000 · Post by **tcb2000** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:30 pm

Here's my view on it :

You did not come across last night and mutiny waited for you. Well you better now go + see Mr Ansell or Mr Johnstone and he will (take is the only word that would make sense but it looks like 'table'...) take you up and introduce you to him. I think we can find you a job at 30/ a week. Get out your averages last (?) particulars and see him at once. You are playing at Perry Barr Saturday. Kick Off's 2-15

Must be Perry Barr as there's a Perry Barr district in Birmingham.

Rich

Post by **Loopz** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:41 pm

Its def Perry Barr as thats where Villa played in the 1890s. The Victorians had some weird sayings but i have to admit the "get out your averages" is a bit strange. They sometimes refer to players being "the equal" to others or being "as trim" as the next one so i wouldnt be too suprised if "get out your averages" is legit.

Thanks for the input so far.

custard99 · Post by **custard99** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:52 pm

Very interesting ... this victorian man is driving me nuts now lol

hippy dave · Post by **hippy dave** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:08 pm

mutiny? really?

the only thing that crossed my mind about the averages thing when i was going through it, before i knew what it was all connected to, was the idea that new employers tend to ask you what you're currently/previously getting paid in order to decide what to pay you, so it might have been the average value of that, but that was a total stretch really, just couldn't come up with anything else....

hippy dave · Post by **hippy dave** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:14 pm

...i mean, i can see how it looks very much like it could be mutiny, but from experience it could definitely also be meeting, even though the e's have no open space inside them. and given the choice, meeting would fit the context better, in my opinion

tcb2000 · Post by **tcb2000** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:24 am

yeah, but ' and meeting waited for you' doesn't make any sense, but ''and mutiny waited for you' does.

Plus compare the (possible) 'u' in 'mutiny' to the same in 'saturday'...looks like a 'u' to me

Rich

hippy dave · Post by **hippy dave** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:00 am

i'm sure you can imagine an implied "the" in there...
but if you reckon this footballer was supposed to be, ahem, meeting his new employers for a mutiny, rather than a, oh, what was that word again?

Post by **Loopz** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:27 am

very intersting. I personally thought that he had missed "the" before meeting as well. Here are a few facts that might help...

The person in question joined Aston Villa in March 1893
His first match was 25th March 1893.
The letter is dated .... well after the confusion of the last letter i thought it would be best to scan that in and see what we can come up with.

You will all get credits on the website for helping me out on this. much appreciated

davemacfrombath · Post by **davemacfrombath** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:13 am

Loopz wrote:The Victorians had some weird sayings but i have to admit the "get out your averages" is a bit strange.

It's Victorian slang for 'baps'.

I think the date is 'Jany', by the way.

Post by **Loopz** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:37 am

I think its January as well and it would tie in nicely.

Acid Gaz · Post by **Acid Gaz** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:59 am

I expect you (Loopz) know this already, but a Charles Johnstone was a Villa director in the 1890s, so he is probably one of those referred to in the letter.

(God, I must be especially bored at work today...).